- ID:I19110
- Name:Eleanor (Ellen) la ZOUCHE
- Suffix:, Heiress of Bingley
- Reference Number:19132
- Sex:F
- Birth:BEF 1273 in Bingley with Micklethwaite, Keighley, West Riding Yorkshire, England
- Death:1300 in Stanton Harcourt, Oxford, England
- Note:
ALSO Eleanor (Ellen) de Mohaut , Heiress of Bingley
Ancestral Roots and Magna Charta Sureties both have Ellen as daughter of Eudo la Zouche and Milicent de Cantelou. Some people on World Connect have Ellen as daughter of Milicent's 1st husband, John de Mohaut. In researching the situation I came up with the following:
While MCS names her straight out as "Ellen la Zouche" and doesn't even mention John de Mohaut as 1st husband of her mother, Ancestral Roots (in line 38, which is the la Zouche line) lists her as the next generation after Eudo la Zouche (implying that Eudo was the father, while noting that Milicent de Cantelou had married John de Mohaut first), but just names her "Eleanor or Ellen" without a surname (While they almost always give a surname! Is AR hedging its bets?). AR gives as supporting evidence the following: "(Feudal Aids 6:21,23 refers to 'Elienora de Zuche' as holding the manor of Bingley of her mother 'Milisenta de Monte Alto' in 1284-5; Rev. C Moor, Knights of Edward I 2:183-184)." That quote leads me to think that Ellen was a daughter of Milicent and John de Monte Alto / Mohaut / Montalt /Montault and was "adopted" by 2nd husband Eudo la Zouche. Her mother Milicent held the manor of Bingley in the name of Monte Alto for her daughter by her first marriage.
Certainly if Ellen held Bingley in 1284-5, she might have been of age (her mother did not die until 1298/99), which means she could have been born as early as 1263, which would certainly make her a child of John & Milicent.
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id=I21166
No. Weis, by placing her as gen. 30 directly under Eudes gen. 29, is stating she _was_ the dau. of Eudes. If he had evidence that she was the dau. of Milicent by John M., he would have created a separate. line or added gen. 31 to line 66.
*****
Weis AR7 38:30 states: Eleanor or Ellen ?m., evidently as a child, by 1286, Sir John Harcourt, Knt?. Therefore she ?evidently? was _not_ of age in 1284-5. Weis implies she was born in or bef. 1274 since ?as a child? means she was under age 13 (I think). Weis AR7 253:29 indicates her parents m. by 13 Dec 1273. Weis used the word ?by? because:
?The 1273 date is based on records created after the death of Millicent's brother George de Cauntelo, whose heir she was?. [Ref: Chris Phillips 21 Feb 2002] This means to me that Millicent & Eudes may well have been married several years earlier, thereby making it more likely that Eudes was the father of Ellen.
ES X:139 lists her father as Eudes, but I?m wary of ES for English line
*****
?AR gives as supporting evidence the following: "(Feudal Aids 6:21,23 refers to 'Elienora de Zuche' as holding the manor of Bingley of her mother 'Milisenta de Monte Alto' in 1284-5; Rev. C Moor, Knights of Edward I 2:183-184)." That quote leads me to think that Ellen was a daughter of Milicent and John de Monte Alto / Mohaut / Montalt /Montault and was "adopted" by 2nd husband Eudo la Zouche.
See Patrica Junkin 24 Feb & 3 Mar 2002 msgs to SGM showing that Millicent repeatedly identified herself by her first husband?s name in documents dated after Eudes death. Apparently she felt it had more social presitge than la Zouche & I don?t think it had anything to do with the identity of Eleanor/Ellen's father.
See: John P. Ravilious 20 Aug 2003 msg to SGM, Subject: Re: Edmund, Earl of Lancaster's cousin, John de St. John.
He indicates Millicent?s father or gf, both named William de C., acquired the manor of Bingley, co. Yorks. ca. 1230 & received a confirmation from the Crown of the vill, market and manor of Bingley of the gift and feoffment of Rannulph, earl of Chester and Lincoln?
John cited: CP & _Ancient Bingley: or Bingley, Its History and Scenery, Bingley, Yorks_ p66 online at www.pcug.org.au/~bthompso/bingley/bingleyy.pdf
Lastly see: Douglas Richardson 17 Jul 2003 msg to SGM, Subject: Children of Milicent de Cantelowe, wife of Eudes la Zouche, of Harringworth.
He claims to confirm Eleanor/Ellen was dau of Eudes because of a fine regarding Bingley, although I?m unsure why he thinks that proves it since Bingley was Millicent?s not Eudes? inheritance that passed to Eleanor/Ellen. FWIW, at the end of the msg, he did say that he had found no records indicating any children by John de M. & Millicent. Possibly he explains his conclusion in more detail in his recently published PA3 which I haven?t see
If the will or IPM of John de Mohaut/Montault/Montalt were extant they might provide a solution, but if they were, I'm sure they would have come to light by now.
Sorry I didn't include this in the first post-em, but Weis AR7 93:30 clearly calls her "Ellen la Zouche" thereby leaving no uncertainy that Dr. Weis meant she was dau. of Eudes & not John M. in 38:30.
NOTE FROM CURT HOFEMANN curt_hofemann@yahoo.com
- _UID:78B2901CC6FB4FD98D7BEC2D493146CB6B3E
- Change Date: 31 MAY 2010
Father: Eudo la ZOUCHE b: 1232 in Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire, England
Mother: Milicent de CANTELOU b: 1250 in Calne, Wiltshire, England
Marriage 1 John de HARCOURTb: ABT 1275 in Stanton Harcourt, Oxford, England
- Married: BEF 1286 in England
Children
 William de HARCOURT b: ABT 1300 in Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, England
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